Damian O'Neill In His Flat, With The Guitar Used On Undertones Debut "Teenage Kicks" Ep 11 Years Ago.

Photo:Jack Rabid - Damian O'Neill Interview The Big Takeover Issues 27 and 28 avaialbe on back issue.

Issue 27 - Part One Transcribed' By Jon Wells

DAMIAN O'Neill was interviewed in the living roan of his flat in S.E. London on May 20, 1989. Most of you know either one or both of the bands DAMIAN has spent the last 12 years with, along with his brother JOHN (SEAN) thE UNDERTONES one of the best bands of the late 70's/early 80's, as evidenced by the continued interest in them five years after they quit. In '85, the O'Neill's resurfaced in another band that's turned out to be equally sucessful, the much different thAT PEtrOL EMOTION.

The Undertones formed in '77 or thereabouts in Derry, Northern Ireland, site of the infamous Bloody Sun nearly two decades ago. Despite the political strife around them, Undertones wrote songs about girls, chocolate bars, and general teen angst, as reflected by their classic debut 4 song single "Teenage Kicks," released by the Good vibrations label in Belfast in '78, the fourth release on one of the best punk labels of all time (though it seems DAMIAN would disagree there). Soon thereafter they signed to Sire, who issued their first two albums both in Britain and in the U.S. In September '79, they came to America to promote their debut LP as L support for TB CLASH (2nd US tour for Clash),. opening shows that sometimes included SAM AND DAVE, as was the case at the two New York dates at the Palladium. While here they were guest DJs on the Wpix "Radio Radio" program. This was a memorable time, as that first self-titled LP is definitely one of the greatest pop-punk records of all time, certainly the heaviest sounding.

The lighter, happier 2nd LP Hypnotised did as well, with more top 40 UK singles, and their first US headlining tour, highlighted by two great NY shows at Irving Plaza and The Hotel Diplomat. The group left Sire for EMI, and released two more LPs. The Positive Touch lost their ballsy, guitars, but still makes for a fine sugar-pop album. Which can't be said for the followup, The Sin of Pride, a good 1/2 of which is soul-less wank, much like singer FEARGal SHARKEY 's solo career (after his 1st two good singles), the sound of a band breaking up. More NY gigs at Peppermint Lounge, though better than that last uninspired LP, confirmed the impression the band was in decline. They didn't even look as happy to be playing as previously.

Whey quit soon thereafter. EMI rereleased the first x35 s. ,rte with a boring new sleeve, as well as a singles ,,.,LP (a and b sides) to mark their passing. ' Late '85, and That Petrol Emotion releases their first single, "Keen" on the Pink label in London. Whereas the O'Neills had been the two guitarists in Undertones, in the new band DAMIAN was on bass, with John and pal RAE on guitars. Another single followed, "V2," on their own label, and after signing to Demon, they released the best of their 3 albums to date, Manic Pop Thrill. The band made their U.S. debut at the Ritz in New York for the New Music Seminar. This great LP got then signed to Polydor, who issued their OK if not as pop based 2nd LP, Babble, and their first proper US tour commenced including another date at The Ritz.

Things soured with Polydor, so they moved to Virgin, where they released their most recent (and weakest, but OK) LP End of The Milenium Psychosis Blues, and another U.S. tour early this year (New 'fork date:The World, the opening date on the tour). John left the band before this tour, and DAMIAN has moved back to his old guitar position. Which brings us to this interview.

DAMIAN was indeed having teenage kicks in the Undertones as he's still in his late 20's, and the most interesting thing about talking to him was that his memory is quite strong, he had strong responses to each inquiery, and best of all, had no aversion to discussing anything, no matter how much it might seem like old news. In fact, DAMIAN said he was about the only one from Undertones who still likes to talk about those days.

As a postscript, however, we've received reports that Undertones attempted to reunite in November to perform at JOHN PEEL's 50th birthday bash (old favorites like thE FalL and a supposedly drunken performed), but John O'Neill couldn't make it at the last minute, due (conflicting reports here) to either illness or death in the family. We're told that they were surprised in rehearsal by how great it sounded, so maybe for old times sake they'll give it another try for us.

My thanks to Jon Wells for caning through with the transcription at the last minute, and remember there's a 2nd part of this 90 minute interview coming up next issue. Hope this leads a few of you to take out your old Undertones' singles or That Petrol Emotion records off the shelf. Music with zest and zeal (kinda like potato chips) and a real kick.

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"Nothing Left" by thE BUZZCOCKS (from Love Bites) and "In a Rut" by thE RUTS (from their 1st single). 5 1 You still have kind of a fond affection for that period and those bands.

DAMIAN:Yeah, of course. ' 78, ' 79 around that time, 'cause we were all growing up at that time, those were the records we listened to and they're still so fresh today. (YES!) Bhomcocks will always sound fresh (even when they come back!). The Ruts one was Raymonde's idea, he's a big Ruts' fan.

JR:One of my favorite bands of all time.

DAMIAN:"In a Rut" is a great song. A lot of people forget that Ruts existed. Bhomcocks survived, Undertones have survived.

JR:People are still buying the records!

DAMIAN:They still get played on the radio. Ruts, though, you never hear Ruts. You hear a S record rather than Ruts, which is a shame, they're a better band.

JR:Members were fun, but yeah, Ruts were far better at much the same thing, with those reggae influences that show up occasionally in both.

DAMIAN:Ruts were one of the first to use that reggae rock thing, and thE CLASH. They did it in a good way. A lot of bands tried to do it as well but failed. Ruts did it good.

JR:That's 'cause they were such phenomenal musicians, no one else had their skill and chops. Which reminds me, which one of you is wearing thE Cue' t-shirt in the photo in Positive Touch?

DAMIAN:That's probably me. I was a good friend of BILLY HASSETT from The Chords. At the time I used to stay in his flat in London, yeah I got to know him really well. The Chords weren't a great band, really.

JR:They made great records.

DAMIAN:A couple of good singles.

JR:"Maybe Tomorrow!" "Somthing's Missing!"

DAMIAN:"Maybe Tomorrow" was the best. They even got Top of The Pops for that! But the rest of the group, apart from Billy, were dickheads. They let it get to them, just even having a top 30 hit. They really thought they were gonna take over from thE JAM. They really did. They were big headed, conceited assholes. Billy was great and then they sacked Billy, so I knew that was the end of them after that. They tried to get some singer and failed.

JR:I heard two of them had formed a band called AGENT ORANGE (not the US one) , but I never heard anything after that.

DAMIAN- Yeah, CHRIS the guitar player.

JR:Chris' Pope.

DAMIAN:Yeah. I never really liked him, he basically was not a great songwriter. Well that single was good. I knew it wasn't going to work, The Chords. Plus that mod thing they were part of, it was a crest of a wave. It all died out, because it was all just a fad really.

JR:Right. SECRET AFFAIR, MERTON PARKAS, etc.

DAMIAN:It died out after a year and groups like Merton,Parkas and Chords all just died with it.

JR:There's actually a 12" in America that has .a live version of That Petrol Emotion doing CAN's "Mother Sky" with HUGO LARGO live. That was recorded here wasn't it?

DAMIAN:That was recorded here at the end of the British tour we did with them.

JR:How come they're not credited on the sleeve!

DAMIAN:I was just gonna say that. We were really pissed off about that because we told them to put it on!

JR:Well it's just a limited edition collectors 12" anyway.

DAMIAN:Still pissed off. They should at least be mentioned, 'cause it's great with HAflN°s violin and that's the whole song, it makes it basically. You know, it's a rough recording done from the desk.

JR:How many times did Hugo Largo join you on stage?

DAMIAN:Just twice, actually counting New York it's three- And STEW cur singer actually went. on stage with Iii to sing, uh, shit, halfway through the tour, what was it? A Hugo song, maybe MIA STIPE co-wrote it.

JR:Oh, "Harpers?"

DAMIAN:Yeah, I guess that one.

JR:Yeah, REM were doing that on their recent tour.

DAMIAN::Yeah, I heard about that. So Steve did the part that Stipe did on the record.

JR:So you got along real well with Hugo Largo on your tour with them?

DAMIAN:Ah, they're great. Great band as well.

JR:You must have had fun talking to TIM SOMMER of the Hugos about all the same old bands from the late 70's and stuff.

DAMIAN:Tim's great. He's a bit intense at times, but-you know what he's like.

JR:Yeah. (laughs)

DAMIAN:But, really, I don't know if they're going to survive much longer. Tim was saying there's big differences between him and Mimi + ADAM.

JR:we'll have to censor that comment. Ye who transcribes this, can that part from the record (no longer necessary).

DAMIAN:They were over here recently, and Mimi's voice, she had larangitis or something. So that really fucked them up, their new LP. They got really good reviews over here, they got received really well. We did France with them as well.

JR:Supposedly their next LP is going to be produced by BRIAN END who's a big fan, signed them to his label Opal/WEA. I heard you were interested in having Eno produce your last LP.

DAMIAN:Yeah, that's a funny .story. we're good friends with DICE O'DONDHUE, who runs a radio station in L.A., she's really good friends with REM and people like that. We told her we were interested in getting Eno to produce us, so she sent the tape to Leo's office, with the Petrol's stuff we'd done before on side one of the tape. On the other side, she coincidently put on Hugo Largo's 1st LP.

JR:Who's idea was that!

DAMIAN:Uh, hers. Anyway, Eno heard the Petrols, didn~t like us, loved Hugo Largo! (both laugh) When we heard that we were like, fuck!

JR:So you ended up with BOLT producing you again.

DAMIAN:Yeah, well, last year nobody wanted to produce us, nobody. We sent tapes off to loads of people. DON WAS, STEVE LILLYWHITE, all these other big producers. They all flatly said no, so 5,2 we basically ended up with Roli again, 'cause nobody else would do it!

JR:Did you try JOHN BRAND?

DAMIAN:Who?

JR:He did AZTEC CAMERA'S 1st LP, all the Ruts stuff, which is where I thought you'd know his work, plenty of other stuff, even some CULT.

DAMIAN: Never even thought of him.

JR:Well, keep him in mind. He's really good, if you want a real clear sound, or JOHN LECKIE.

DAMIAN:Leckie we used for "Genius Move," we recorded it with Roli and he remixed it. Made'it more poppy. So the actual single version is Leckie's. Yeah, I like John Leckie, but I don't think. he was mentioned again after.

JR:Were you not happy with his work?

DAMIAN:I think Raymonde wasn't, but I really liked it. I think it's better than Roli's version.

JR:He did a good job with the new STONE ROSES LP.

DAMIAN:Yeah? I don't like that group. Yeah, John Leckie's been around.

JR:He goes back to engineering for thE BEATLES. Not a bad recommendation.

DAMIAN: Definitely not. This LP though. I'll quickly tell you about this one. We met when we were in LA, SCOTT LITT (REM producer) and MICA BEINHORN from RED HUT CHILLI PAS, they've both agreed to do the next LP. So now it's just a matter of ironing it out. I think we're going to use Scott Litt (a letter from DAMIAN the next month confirmed this as fact).

JR:He has quite a reputation from REM's stuff

DAMIAN:Yeah, well we love the production on Green. That's great.

JR:Yeah, it's their best record in years!

DAMIAN:But, it's always the group that writes the songs. If the songs are good, obviously the producer enhnaces that. And if they're bad songs, there's not much the producer can do. Scott Litt seems like the producer we'd like to use. We should know within weeks. Apparently he's available.

JR:How happy were you with your 1st LP producer, HUGH JONES. He's my favorite. (BUNNYMEN, SAINTS, etc.)

DAMIANe:Great! Hugh Jones saved us basically. We probably might've broken up if it wasn't for Hugh.

JR:No kidding!

DAMIAN:We would've made the record; but I'm sure it wouldn't have been as good as it was. It all snowballed after Manic Pop Thrill, we got all this interest suddenly and signed up with a major. We were orignally going to do the record with a friend, JEFFREY HST, who isn't the greatest producer in the world, he's just a friend basically. Hugh 1 the band, saw us a few times. We signed to D a one-off record:Hugh said he'd like to do v We said, well, we can't give you much money. said fine, I want to do it anyway, I don't care So he got 2,000 pounds advance, which is fuckoff and a minimum amount of points. I can't remember and we went to Wales for a month, and recorded 'fib whole thing in four weeks.

JR:Haw familiar are you with his other work, Bunnymen, Sound, Saints, etc.

DAMIAN:Yeah, Saints, and you see I knew him from thE UNDERTONES he'd done "Beautiful Friend." Him and DAVE FM-T, he was a beautiful friend. What I loved was his attitude, he just slogged off so many groups of that time. He was just a real music fan who didn't care about money. The worst thing about Hugh is that he had a fucking crappy manager who we had to deal with, but that's besides the point. Yeah, a lot of praise for Hugh. Since then though he hasn't really done anything (Jon says Dumptruck's last LP). The major record company attitude towards Hugh is like he's a second class producer or something.

JR:Maybe since he hasn't had any huge hits.

DAMIAN:That's why, which is really unfair.

JR:He hasn't worked with many hit bands to beg with, has he?

DAMIAN:Nor but I've just gof great pries doing that LP. He's a workaholic as well. He' s in the studio virtually 22 hours a day.

JR:Everyone raves about the engineering on records. Does he do most of it?

DAMIAN:For our record he didn't. He had a gel in called STUART, who did a great job. However , before that he was always engineering and producing,

JR:So you liked Rockfield Studios?

DAMIAN:Yeah, we did End of The Millenium there too. It's a great studio. It's got a great drum room, you can get great guitar sounds. I must sate Hugh captured the greatest guitar sound Petrol= ' ever got, I think we haven't equalled since.

JR:Right from the first note:

DAMIAN:Yeah, fucking harsh - brilliant. I always asked Raymonde and John, can't we get that scum' again, but they never could.

JR:It's nice that you credit the producer. D O you remember making your U.S. debut with Petrols. , at the seminar in New York? -~ „

DAMIAN:Oh yeah, can't forget that.

JR:Were you under the impression that that gig was open to the public before you came over, whet in fact it was only open to seminar attendees?

DAMIAN:Yeah! We were actually told that people' could get in, and of course it was a fiasco. It was all record company people!

JR:The only date on your first U.S. tour.

DAMIAN:We have this thing about playing New York,,:' doing the worst shows and the stupidest things, or not doing ' em at all. °' k'

JR:Well the next Ritz show was good.

DAMIAN:Yeah, that was much better. That first e time, why we didn't play Maxwells, before that or,'.' do interviews and shit. Instead we did this stupid wonky major company crap. I have to blame our:, manager there. I think he thought. if we played. the seminar and sold out it'd be a pretty big thing. k Fuckin' crap.

JR:You've done 2 proper US tours since.

DAMIAN:We're glad we did the 2nd Ritz show. Even that wasn't that good though. I'm pissed off this , last tour the first date was The World, we got much better later on. I'm pissed off we didn't do a:';2nd show, again, later on, 'cause that would have been killer. Much better.

JR:I had heard from someone connected with Maxwells that you were going to play there when you came back around, what happened? Was it that your management wanted too much money?

DAMIAN:Probably, probably.

JR:So you don't really have control over that sort of decision.

DAMIAN:It gets out of hand, it really does. It's a typical thing where the agency is supposed to represent you for your own good. Getting as much money as possible. But sometimes to ,them it's all business.

Tor They can't see it as being a one-off gig just for fun and or publicity?

DAMIAN:No, agencies don't have this word fun it s business. (DAMIAN declined to elaborate on the record).

JR:Why have you already been on 5 labels? Or is that a stupid question?

DAMIAN:Well it started off, nobody wanted to sign us originally. We were supposed to sign to Creation. John and Raymonde got offered to do a single, that fell through. So we signed with Pink, just happened to meet friends of a friend, and they said they'd give us the money to do it. 400 quid or whatever, so that was the key there.

JR:That's the "Keen" 45. I love the b-side of that, real different, "Great Depression on a Slum Night," that's among your best I think.

DAMIAN:Yeah, good, I'm glad you said that 'cause Raymonde can't hear it. I think it's still one of the best, not the best recorded version. It's too slow, it should have been speeded up. It's, a bit too depressing in a way. It's a great tune. Great guitar playing by Raymonde.

JR:Great chorus riff, too.

DAMIAN:Yeah, anyway that single, after that we got pissed off with Pink, they're a bunch of wankers. They were rippin' us off. So we kind of of learnt that all you need is 4 or 500 pounds and you could do it yourself. 'Cause at that time we didn't have any money. Actually all we got from Pink was 26 pounds! A check for 26 pounds. It sold like 7000.

JR:Hope you had a good dinner on that one.

DAMIAN:Oh yeah, we treated ourselves. We made money playing live at the time, so we did a oneoff deal with Rough Trade to distribute our 2nd single "V2," on Noise Annoys Records (what do you know, a label named after a BUZZCOCKS' song), our own label. After that we asked different labels. Rough Trade actually expressed interest in signing, and we even went so far as meeting GEOFF trAVIS, me and Steve. And he said "Yeah, we're going to sign you." We went into the studio and recorded a rough version of "Natural Kind of Joy," a much slower version. "I think the story is that Travis heard that, hated it, and pulled out of the deal."

JR:Too Beatlesque for him?

DAMIAN:Well, it's a rotten version. It's shit. It's actually got strings on it. It's not that good. So he pulled out and that left us in the lurch again. We were so pissed off 'cause nothing was happening. And then Demon came to the rescue and it was great. Perfect record company 'cause they just offered us a oneoff deal, said to us quite honest "we're not really interested in singles, obviously we'll release them, but we're not gonna hype them, we're not going to spend any money on promotion," so we said fine. Just give us money to do the LP. So they gave us 12,000 pounds.$2000 favorite record, done in 4 weeks. And it sounds fresh. You can tell the group's been playing for a whole year before that, so it's all live in the studio. It's a great record. There's a few dodgy things on it. "Cheapskate" should never've been on it, as there's better songs we left off for bsides. It's a statement from the group at the time. And angry as well. Northern Ireland was much the focus. And that got received brilliantly, got great reviews. Sold about 30,000 which is very good for an independent, and then of course, phone calls from majors. By then it was getting crazy. We didn't have a manager at the time and we knew we needed one to get a deal. We wanted to sign to a major then, we wanted to make some money. We wanted to be more successful. There was no big discussion of whether we should sign to a major or not. It was all accepted, let's do it. Polydor wanted us, we got offers from London. WEA flatly refused, Virgin didn't want to know, ironically enough. Phonogram was the other major contender. So we went for Polydor, because their managing director was a genuine kind of guy and he personally wanted to sign us. There's a few good people at Polydor we liked and we knew we'd get a lot of freedom. Rabble was done, much higher budget obviously. We wanted Roli mostly because we loved his work with YOUNG GODS. We wanted a harder sound for stuff like "Creeping to the Cross." That took about 6 to 7 weeks. There was a lot of remixing done:And Polydor didn't hear a single thing until we delivered the whole LP, finished. They came down once and didn't interfere. So give them credit, then. Everything was fine and rosy as it was released. ' "Big Decision°" was almost a hit here, it got a lot of radio play. Things were iookin' kind of good. Babble got great reviews, however it didn't really sell. So it all went wrong after that, the managing director left the company, he went to manage PAUL MCCARTNEY or something, and the few odd people who liked us left as well. The people who replaced them were assholes, real assholes, especially the new managing director. So he called us in to a meeting one day, he treated us like schoolkids and he said, "Boys, you gotta write hit singles now, you know, concentrate 'on the markets" and ail this crap. He even said, "no more politics, that's hurting you."

JR:They actually said that to your face, even though went to Hugh and 10 went to recording.

DAMIAN:it was more your sleeves than your music that had

JR:That's what I call a shoestring budget. the politics?

DAMIAN:Yeah, and wouldn't you know it, it's my 53oh yeah, they didn't like it.I mean, they. couldn't have forced us to drop it, but obviously, as far as they were concerned just mentioning it was bad enough- So we went out of that meeting thinking "Fuck, we're screwed now!" 'Cause originally Polydor said they'd let us develop, take as long as you want to. You'll be an LP band, not a singles band. Basically build it up like thE CURE have done which is fine. This guy was suddenly telling us that we had to have hit singles right away, otherwise, you know, "a11 the money you're spending here." Treating us like children. We had a big meeting with our manager, who also knew that guy was an asshole, and suddenly a couple of weeks later we discovered that there was a loophole in our contract and we could get out of it, which has happened before in the Undertones, same manager, ANDY FERGUSON

JR:When you left Sire after the 2nd LP?

DAMIAN:Yeah. Polydor made a worse mistake. They forgot to pick up our option, right? They forgot to sign the written documents saying legally they're picking up our option. The contract said they had to do that within a 2 month period. They forgot! 'ire had forgotten to send us accounts, something much more trivial, that Andy used to get us out of that contract as well. So Andy has done it twice! With 2 major companies! Quite an achievement I think. Same lawyer as well, really good lawyer. So we got out of Polydor, we had a meeting with that asshole managing director, when he knew we were splitting, and he went apeshit! Actually at the start he was really nice, a suddenly completely different person. (DAMIAN mimics him) "Boys, we could be a family, you could do what you want now." Total change of attitude. Next day we left!

JR:Have you ever seen the film "Roaring Twenties," the one with JAS CAGNEY and HUMPHREY BOGART.

DAMIAN:I think I may have, which is it?

JR:At the end Bogart's telling Cagney he's wasted, he ought to get out of his face, he's worthless, but then Cagney pulls a gun on him in a surprise, and now Bogart goes "Hey! We could be pals again, whadayasay! 50/50 just like old times!"

DAMIAN:FUCKING SHITS.

JR:But Cagney just shakes his head and goes, "Now, I_don't think sooo." And he pumps Bogart full of lead!

ACT:I really wish I had a tape recorder. I was even going to bring a little SONY walkman 'cause I would've loved to have taped that conversation. His attitude as the end, 'cause he knew he was losing us. He was going to try to bribe us to stay by saying "You can have your own label, do what you want, sign other bands." And we wouldn't have anything more to do with him. Too late.

JR:Hope Virgin is being more supportive.

DAMIAN:Yeah. not so rosy now, well, no, it's OK I suppose. They've got every right to be nervous. They've spent a fortune on us, the last record cost a fortune.

JR:And sold worse than the others, right?

DAMIAN:Well, it sold more worldwide than Babble, because in America that suffered since we left Polydor when it came out. They obviously did no more work. End of the Millineum did better in the US. This time it cost 80,000 pounds to make; and Virgin spent a lot on promotion. However, criticize them as well, when the record came out, instead of sending an LP to all the journalists and people, they sent a fucking cassette with just the titles. This is to be reviewed. So they didn't even hear the record properly or see the sleeve notes, which always important with us. I think Virgin was scared to do it 'cause of our politics on our sleeves. Our manager went crazy when he heard about this. It got mixed reviews here. Slagged off by Melody Maker, NME gave it a mixed review. It didn't do that well, we didn't have a hit single. I forgot to mention about "Genius Move" that was recorded during the Polydor days. We were going to stick it out as a single, but Polydor didn't want it, and "Groove Check" was actually supposed to be the b-side. (Jack laughs) Virgin actually bought "Genius Move" off Polydor for 5000 pounds. That got released before End of The Millenium. It sold nothing.

JR:Didn't know that.

DAMIAN:This is where the sinister forces take over. It's a perfect pop song, the most poppy thing we've ever done. It didn't get any daytime play on the radio.

JR:That's a very common complaint.

DAMIAN:Well, for us, it was the start of the radio ignoring us. "Cellophane" and "Groove Check" also got no play, I think it's the politics. Basically, what I'm trying to say is that in this country we're fucked for radio:We're never gonna get played again, pretty sure.

JR:How do you know that?

DAMIAN:You never know, but even JOHN PEEL. doesn't like us anymore. We can't even get a session!

JR:He was instrumental in getting UNDERTONES heard in England, wasn't he?

DAMIAN:Oh yeah! The man is responsible for me probably even sitting talking to you now to be quite honest. When "Teenage Kicks" came out, the Undertones attitude at the end was "right we've made the record, that's what we've always wanted to do. See if it happens." There was no career in mind, nothing like that. And suddenly Peel was playing it on the radio and it snowballed. Calls from record companies and we were still playing The Casbah in Derry! (Immortalized on the 1st Undertones LP on "Casbah Rock.")- It was crazy!

JR:Were you playing The Harp and The Pound back then, too?

DAMIAN:Yeah. We didn't play Belfast that much. Derry we always played. The Casbah and little dive bars, we basically got a following from Derry people. Belfast - see there's this thing about Derry and Belfast. Belfast ridicule anything that's not from Belfast. Same old capitol city mentality, though it's kind of worse over there. When we went to Belfast we weren't sure how we were gonna be received by people since we were from Derry! We went and played The Pound.

JR:Small little bar.

DAMIAN:Yeah. In fact, we were filmed at the pound club, and also at a place in Port Rush which is another city near Derry.

JR:Is that JOHN DAVIS?

DAMIAN:Yeah, Shellshock Rock. How did you know?

JR:I've seen it a few times in New York, Davis came over and did a few special screenings in 1980.

DAMIAN:Did you see it with Undertones in it?

JR:Yeah, I've heard you were cut out of it soon therafter.

DAMIAN:We weren't on the one one I saw recently.

JR:I got lucky I guess.

DAMIAN:Well, I'll tell you the story briefly. We saw it. We were in London or something. It's a great film. For some fucking reason our manager persuaded us to get ourselves taken out of it. We thought it was a false impression of unity between the Catholics and Protestants in Belfast. We thought it was so stupid, at the time we thought we didn't ,want to be a part of it 'cause it's not true. Punk didn't bring Catholics and Protestants together. Undertones were known to be a Catholic band whereas STIFF LITTLE FINGERS were known to be a Protestant band. There was always that kind of polarized thing, even then. So we thought it's not true, let's get ourselves taken out. ~

JR:Maybe your manager didn't want you to be lumped in with OUTCASTS and bands like that.

DAMIAN:Oh, why not. I'm gonna ask him. I've got the scrapbook. There's actually an article in the, paper with John Davis being so pissed off that we pulled out, you know, understandably. I,.

JR:Well, you'd be the main attraction for his movie, along with SLF.

DAMIAN:I wish we were back in. I'm even thinkin':of callin' up and saying get us back in. But, it's probably too late it's 10 years ago.

JR:Was the same thinking used to force Good Vibrations to delete the "Teenage Kicks" single, the only single they deleted before they folded,:a few years later?

DAMIAN:That was because Sire bought the rights from TERRY HCOLFY, so he wasn't allowed to reprint it again. However he did, on the sly. We know that he printed like 10,000. Why not? Thing was, Sire ripped him off. Hooley is not a ,good businessman, never was, never will be.

JR:He's a bit of a drunk, too, isn't he?

DAMIAN:Yeah, you know you can swindle him by getting him steaming drunk or something. It's in the scrapbook. Again I was looking at it the other day. He sold the rights to "Teenage Kicks" for like 1000 pounds, and they promised him more money but never paid him. So there you go. I'm sure that's the story he'll tell his grandchildren.

JR:Who was the one who OKed the reissue of that in '83 as you broke up, with that ridiculous different sleeve.

DAMIAN:That must have been EMI, the label we were on after Sire, 'cause they bought the rights after that. You know, when we left Sire, not only did we leave the company but we left with the entire back catalog.

JR:I remember that, nobody else had ever done that before, right?

DAFT:Yeah, our manager should be in some music business book!

JR:Colonel Tom Parker Hall of Fame!

DAMIAN:Incredible. To this day I still don't know how we got away with it. Walked away with the whole catalog. So EMI released the single again, just to see if it could be a hit again. Stupid.

JR:Doesn't that reissue lose a little something in the translation without that graffiti you had a photo of on the original sleeve "The Undertones are shit - piss cunt wankers."

DAMIAN:Man, I hated the EMI cover. The black and white one. That's shit. That's a shitty cover.

JR:I never saw anyone else do that, telling people you're shit before they even buy the record!

DAMIAN:That was my idea. A friend photographed it for us. At the time there was a big thing Undertones had great support, but we were ridiculed; in Derry as well as Belfast. There were say only 100 people who really loved the band. Berry is a slow place, we were considered a freak. I remember walking down with straight jeans and a black jacket/' and tie and a white shirt and people would laugh at me 'cause I was wearing straight jeans. People still wore flares in 1977!

JR:I recall (both laugh).

DAMIAN:Over here it was a movement in a certain respect. In Derry we were ridiculed so much, people would write "Undertones are Shit" and not only that, another thing in the same park where that photo was taken, somebody had written "Undertones," a few weeks later someone changed it to "Hang the Undertones, Hang the Undertones."

JR:Hang the Undertones.'

DAMIAN:Cause we weren't serious music like thIN LIZZY.

JR:Yeah! And HORSLIPS. (both laugh)

DAMIAN:Yeah, Horslips. You know, we were playing this pop punk rock shit. We couldn't play, you know we weren't musicians. So we were fuckin' hit, especially by the local bands there that were doing the

JR:It'll always be that way. People forget the Sex Pistols got knifed. PAUL COOK was almost killed.

DAMIAN::Yeah, Derry could have been Austin, Texas back then, same mentality.

JR:Where was it, Hammersmith tube? A bunch of teddy boys who hated punks?

DAMIAN:A stupid tilling. The Teddy Boys. So, that's why we put that "Undertones are shit" thing.

JR:Here's a pointed question. I remember seeing Undertones play a little of .STIFF LITTLE FINGERS' "Alternative Ulster" at one of your New York gigs.

DAMIAN:Undertones did "Alternative Ulster?"

JR:Yeah.

DAMIAN::No.

JR:I remember it well.

DAMIAN:No. You're serious, we didn't.

JR:Yeah, and you introduced it as "an Irish Folk Song," you didn't play the whole thing.

DAMIAN:No we didn't. We didn't do it. We wouldn't do .that.

JR:Just for a -

DAMIAN:We probably dial the first few bars of it.

JR:Yeah, exactly.

DAMIAN:Oh yeah, I can remember doing that. Now it's coming back. It was at the old Peppermint Lounge. OK, yeah, it -was -just as a joke, u we didn't do the song.

JR:Well what I mean is.

DAMIAN:Yeah, well we hated Stiff Little Fingers, and still do to this day.

JR:And they hated you?

DAMIAN:I think they did, well, yeah. They did "Teenage Kicks" as a joke, kinda thing.

JR:Right. That's why I figured you were just answering them back.

DAMIAN:That's different. They actually did it. They did the whole thing. They did it as encores all the time, I remember seeing them do it.

JR:(laughing) Feel like you'd been pissed on?

DAMIAN: Sort of, yeah. 'Cause it wasn't funny. There was no love between us.

JR:Some of the interviews I remember from back then you slagged them for being political.

DAMIAN:We were naive, stupid in a way, but mainly they weren't saying anything. An English journalist (OGLIVIE) was writing their lyrics for them, and they were saying ",Gotta Get Away" and "Barbed Wire Love" and "Alternative Ulster" but they weren't talking about Northern Ireland, they were talking about people getting killed. JAKE BURNS then did some festival over here and said "The British Troops should be kept in Northern Ireland because they're keeping the peace." To us being Catholics from Northern Ireland, from Derry and witnessing all this shit, we knew they were a bunch of middle class student assholes. Which they were, except for HENRY, CLUNEY, who's a fucking bigoted thug and still is. They were just dickheads. Jake Burns is a nice guy. I mean I saw SLF with their hair down to here doing Thin Lizzy covers. We knew what kind of group they were. We never treated them as being serious. So yeah, that's why we always slagged them off. I know they slag us too, I've seen recent interviews.

JR:To this very day. So here's that pointed question. You say you were naive then. But now it seems as if That Petrol Emotion is considered a politically concious band from Northern Ireland, whereas you always slagged SLF for being political while Undertones were writing about chocolate and girls.

DAMIAN:Well that's the thing; They never addressed the Irish question, to us they just became popular because of it. They were portrayed as these kids from war torn Belfast, they rode on the crest of that wave. We at the same time, I hate to say, got very sympathetic reviews when we didn't deserve them, because we were from Northern Ireland as well, from English journalists. They were giving us good reviews if the record was good or bad. I still think there was a bit of sympathy too, not just us, but RUDI and groups like that as well.

JR:MOCNDOGS too.

DAMIAN:Moondogs who weren't really that good, but, so there was always that kind of thing. Undertones eventually became a band all the journalists and everyone loves. I don't know.

JR:I never saw many slags of Undertones, Bhomcocks, etc., poppunk seemed to be liked by everyone when it was done really well.

DAMIAN:A lot of people hated FEARGal's voice, thought it was very irritating.

JR:Well, you do now.

DAMIAN:Some songs, oh yeah. Not at the start. I think at first he was great.

JR:I mean, his solo records now!

DAMIAN:ANNOYING! It's a shame. Oh, Feargal's a dickhead! You can quote me on that!!!!!

part two continued next time. Believe it or not, this is where the tape ended on side one. How's that for timing?

Issue 28 - Part 2 Transcribed by Jack Rabid

This concludes the Lien O'Neill interview, which took place in the living roan of his London flat, 'by 20, 1989. Since the interview, thAT PEtrOL EMOTION have released their 4th LP Chemicrazy produced by SEX= L= (who did the last 2 R.E.M. LPs), and will be touring the U.S. in support of it as this mag hits the stands. The appropriate introduction for DAMIAN's career in UNDERTONES and issue. If you enjoy this, we refer you to that earlier part of this same conversation. Lastly, it seems that The Undertones reunion that almost took place in honor of John Peel's 50th birthday (canceled at last minute when DAMIAN's brother JOHN (SEAN) had to deal with a family problem), will not be occurring at any other time in the future; what with the things DAMIAN says about singer FEARGal SHARKEY, it's surprising it almost happened at all! As for Peel, he made due with The Fall, House of Love, Wedding Present & Pete Shelley instead, poor guy! But no "Teenage Kicks" for the great man.

JR:What's BILLY DOHERTY doing these days

DAMIAN:Well, he's got a group. He's been quiet, he got a job straight away when the Undertones broke up in '83. And Billy was always, I never really got on that well with Billy, things got worse near the end. But I always found Billy really selfish where it concerned a group, and he was. He always suited himself first before the group. Anyway, I don't want to tell you all these stories. Anyway, he got a job for a few years, but the last few years he's got a group together, TAE CARalINES, pretty crappy name. He's playing drums, there's 4 of them, I heard some songs of theirs and I wasn't too impressed, kind of like U2 and SIMPLE MINDS kindof thing. Anyway, they got a lot of interest from Virgin records.

JR:That's ironic since you're on them now.

DAMIAN:Yup, funny. In so much as they went over to Ireland to see them play. Things have been held on ice since then because the other members of the band are all in University and they finish this year. So you never know, you might hear from them soon, Virgin might sign them, I don't know.

JR:He wrote "Billy's Third," didn't he. (Yes) One of your best songs ever.

DAMIAN:Naahhh! It's not that good. Billy, wrote it, but let's say he had a lot of help from other people, same thing, John helped him out with "Wrong Way," both times he let Billy keep all the credit. No, Billy's not a songwriter.

JR:What about MICKEY BRADLEY?

DAMIAN:Mickey's now got a full-time job at a radio station in Derry. He's a DJ. He's really happening there, he makes a bit of money.

JR:Hope he's playing your records.

DAMIAN:No, he wouldn't. He can play a lot of independent stuff on his show, but Mickey's a bit embarrassed about the Undertones for sane reason, I don't know, maybe because he still lives over there, he doesn't want to be remembered as Mickey Bradley of the Undertones, he'd rather be known as himself.

JR:I can think of worse things to be remembered as.

DAMIAN:Well, Mickey always had this thing about being in a group, you know, he never really wanted to be known, so he plays it down a lot. John always did to this day. I'm the only one that likes to talk about the Undertones to people.

JR:I'm glad I'm talking to you then. Music doesn't die when it's no longer current I think.

DAMIAN:Yes. That's because mainly because I've always liked being in a group. Of all the members of, The Undertones, I was the only one who liked to tour and stuff. FEARGal did to a certain respect, though he did it for recognition. I just did it for fun. Plus I was the youngest, so I had more fun than the rest as well. I didn't have a steady girlfriend to go home to and cry about, so -I had fun on the road, also I kept a scrapbook of everything, so I know more about the Undertones than the rest of them put together.

JR:What do.you remember about the tour with thE CLASH and SAM AND DAVE in America in ' 79?

DAMIAN:Oh yeah, that was great. It only lasted 2 1/2 weeks.

JR:Must have been a big thrill.

DAMIAN:Oh, Jesus, yeah, The Clash at their prime as well, 'cause that was London Calling.

JR:Well yeah, 3 months before it was released, though it had already been recorded, they played 5 songs off it I remember.

DAMIAN:Amazed at how big the places they were playing were. They just asked us out of the blue to support them. Before that we actually met them, 'cause we were going to do this big festival in Derry, with The Clash, thE DAMNED and thE BOYS.

JR:The Boys? Really? That would be around Alternative Chartbusters, right?

DAMIAN:Yeah, they were big, well, not big, but we liked 'em. "First Time." 'Cause Derry. never got any bands, everybody just played Belfast. IAN DURY played at Derry, and that's about it. So we were determined to put Derry on the rock 'n' roll map. Then the festivai fell through, the last stages, 'cause JOE StrUMMER got a letter from some paramilitary loyalist threatening him, saying "We'll get you if you play." 'Cause he was wearing an H-Block t-shirt in press photos at the time, about our political prisoners. So The Clash told us they couldn't do it. And it was never revealed, that story, it was just canceled and no reason was given.

JR:Maybe that's the reason-I always thought it funny that Clash never wrote a song about Northern Ireland, particularly after they reaped all that publicity by posing in front of (Belfast's) Ulster Hall when they weren't allowed to play there. Yet they were writing about Nicaraugua, etch

DAMIAN:Right, I remembered those photos, that was sick; them being flown all the way over to Northern Ireland and posing in front of the barbed wire. You think about it now -.They were supposed to play, in '78, that's when that happened, they did play at Ulster Hall much later, I was there in the front row, gobbing at MICK JONES . I admit it. (Jack laughs) A year later, there I am playing with him.

JR:And he was gobbing at you! (both laugh)

DAMIAN:Yeah, that tour was brilliant, it was great memories, it was our first tour in America as well, we just did the Fast Coast and a few dates in Canada. We didn't do the West Coast with them because John and Billy didn't want to do the whole tour, which is sad. True story. Sam and Dave just did the 2 nights in New York, we played with BD DIDDLEY as well, and DAVID JOHNANSEN NEW YORK DOLLS, we couldn't believe it! And we met Bo Diddley as well, which was incredible, backstage.

JR:Diddley was on the first Clash tour 7 months before that, with PEARL HARBOR AND thE EXPLOSIONS.

DAMIAN:When we played, a lot of people didn't turn up until much later when the Clash played, 'cause we weren't that well known.

JR:They put you on right at 8 one of the nights at Palladium in New York, 'cause they were broadcasting The Clash live over Wpix. I left my friends in a bar across the street, White Rose, and they missed you entirely! They were so mad.

DAMIAN:Yeah, we cent on really early, 'cause usually there was 3 bands and we were on first. But it didn't matter, I just remember getting really drunk and watching The Clash every night. Hearing "Armegeddon Time" for the first time, and "London Calling," that stuff was great.

JR:And "Clampdown," and "Guns of Brixton."

DAMIAN:But we were really shy people, we didn't socialize with them that much, we kept to ourselves.

JR:Too bad!

DAMIAN:Yeah! Regrettable. And the worst, sad story, the very last show, The Clash wanted to cane on the stage and play "Teen-age Kicks" with us, and we said "No."

JR:You said no? (shocked)

DAMIAN:Yeah! 'Cause we had this thing about groups jamming together, as a hippy kind of thing. so we said no, can you fuckin' believe it?

JR:Don't think it's hippy anymore, huh? (laughs)

DAMIAN:I'd jump on it now. Jesus! And they were very surprised we said no!

JR:Yeah, you should have seen the look on NAIAD RAYGUN's face when SIEVE DID joined them on stage last night, for "Harmony in my Head."

DAMIAN:I think this is worse, 'cause this is The Clash! But I did get to play through Mick Jones' amp one night, 'cause mine broke down. But they were really nice to us, especially Mick Jones himself, he always talked to us a lot. Great memories. Then we did our own tour a year later.

JR:I remember the Irving Plaza and Hotel Diplomat shows.

DAMIAN:The Irving Plaza show was brilliant. You were there?

JR:Yeah. There were pictures from that in an issue of Trouser Press with Rolling Stones on the cover, and I spotted myself in the crowd right away, and a few really good friends of mine. Scmetimes I take that out and look at it, to see my older friends who I don't see anymore.

DAMIAN:Is that right? That was a good .magazine. IRA ROBBINS. He's writing reviews for a New York !caper now, he stagged off our recent show at The World there.

JR:I saw that in the New York Post. He said good things about you as well you know.

DAMIAN:Yeah, he was a bit ;mixed. He said he didn't like the funky stuff.

JR:I agreed with him there at that particular show.

DAMIAN:Well, it was the first show on the tour.

JR:You don't think of it that way when you're reviewing a show, you go on what you see.

DAMIAN:Fair enough. I met Ira last year at the CMT seminar, he's a nice guy.

JR:Yes, he really is. Do you remember doing the Radio Radio program in New York on Wpix, the show that interviewed you and asked you to Di? (I miss that show) When you were first in town on the Clash tour?

DAMIAN:Was that broadcast from Tramps? We just did an interview, we didn't play? Yeah, I don't think I have a tape of that.

JR:They'd have you pick a song or two. Like when DAVID BOWIE was on that same year ('79) he had them play "God Save The Queen" and the new (2nd) headS LP, which was really cool.

DAMIAN:I remember that, 'cause RONNIE SPECTOR was there that night, she was interviewed as cell, so we got to meet her!

JR:You were having a ball on that tour!

DAMIAN:Oh yeah! American tour, oh yeah, that was great! A bit nostalgic, but great memories. And later, playing clubs on our own, knowing you're seeing these towns you've always heard about for the first time, Chicago, New York, doing what you love best and getting paid for it. It's great!

JR:Had you ever heard thE SAINTS' version of "Save Me" before you recorded yours? (Undertones)

DAMIAN:No, I didn't even know they did it!

JR:3rd LP in '78, Prehistoric Sounds.

DAMIAN:Shit! (looks disturbed) Prehistoric Sounds? They do a version of SMOKEY ROBINSON's "Save Me?" What's it like?

JR:Oh, it's hot, really racy horns. I know you liked the Saints, I thought maybe that's where you got the idea to do the song too.

DAMIAN:Shit! No. Huh. God! I like our version as well, I thought that should have been a single (from The Sin of Pride), the first single, instead of "Got to Have You Back°" which is embarrassing.

JR:What went wrong with The Sin of Pride? Whose fault was that?

DAMIAN:The group was disintegrating, so it was going to happen anyway.

JR:You can hear it in the grooves. It's really uninspired.

DAMIAN:Oman. FFARQIL elected, I don't mean to pass the buck to him, but JOHN and Feargal had a big falling out 6 months before that over money. I don't know if I should tell you this.

JR:This is for public consumption.

DAMIAN:No, I can't -Oh, shit, I might as well tell you, so people will understand. It was over songwriting and publishing, right? The songs had always been split 5 ways, equally, and by 1983 'John's pissed off because he's had to give away all of his songs, he wrote all the hit singles, most of the songs on the albums are his. He was getting pissed giving away all his money to us. So, Feargal and John clashed at a meeting, when John said he wanted to keep most of the songwriting royalties, and the rest of us would get like 20% or something to split. And everybody agreed except Feargal, Feargal freaked. Feargal in fact threatened to leave the group if that happened. So, John got defeated just to appease Feargal, and that was a bone of contention that John never forgot. So by Sin of Pride, John was getting fed up with the way Feargal was singing sane of his songs as well. He didn't like it, Feargal was getting too dramatic with his voice, too false, as you can tell on his new, last record.

JR:Every one of them except the first single or two with (exREZILLOS/SHAKE/HUMAN LEAGUE) JO CalLIS.

DAMIAN:So there's an uneasy atmosphere between John and Feargal. There always was, but it just got worse and worse. And when we went to make the LP, we had MIRE HAYS as the producer. That was our best produced LP in my opinion (worst in mine, but no matter), but we picked the wrong songs on that LP. There's crap like "Bye Bye Baby Blue" which is absolute shit. "Got to Have You Back" was supposed to be a b-side, EMI wanted it as a single, so that ended up on the LP too. There's other stuff, regrettably, I have 3 outtakes from that era that never made it on record, which are fucking far superior. I'll make you a copy.

JR:Did you ever hear anything from the Human League after you spoofed them in "My Perfect Cousin?" (funny that Feargal and Callis worked together later, though Callis was not yet a H.L. member when the song was written in '80)

DAMIAN:(laughs) No, actually when that came out we heard from BOB LAST their manager (head of the Fast Products label as will, hone of Fire Engines etc.), and he was quite chuffed that we mentioned them, even though it was in the wrong way of thinking. Again, put that down to naivete. That was me, that was my idea to put that in. "Get the Human League in to advise her. Art school boys." We thought the Human League were really pretentious arseholes. It turned out they were really nice people. well they were a bit art school, but, after that they became huge with "Dare" and "Regret," r they became a pop group, good singles. But at that , time-

JR:Yeah, well, that's a big departure from the sound they had when you mentioned them (very electronic noisescapes, very post-punk)!

DAMIAN:Yeah, I didn't like "Being Boiled," or any of that shit. But, that's embarrassing to me now.

JR:I don't know, I always thought it was funny, more amusing that really calling them assholes or anything. I could see why their manager liked it.

DAMIAN Well, it is a funny line. There are worse things than that I suppose if we're talking embarrassing. "More Songs About Chocolate and Girls," I cringe when I hear that now.

JR:Really! I like that! What would the world be without "There Goes Norman" and chocolate and girls? Can't you see the essential charm?

DAMIAN:Yeah I suppose. But it was that charm which really got us at the end, we were growing up and we were still being treated like we were these schoolkids, you know? Well we weren't! 'that's why the Positive Touch LP marked a big difference in the songwriting, it was much more mature, especially from John. The production is really shit on that album, it suffered. And by Sin of Pride we'd just outgrown this naivete, basically.

JR:the motown/soul influences were creeping in.

DAMIAN:Yeah, that too. Actually, during Positive Touch, we were listening to (ROLLING STONES) Between the Buttons. And "Life's Too Easy" is like that.

JR:And "Hard Luck" before it was a GARY GLITTER homage, right?

DAMIAN:Yeah, that was just a joke. We always loved Gary Glitter. We did SLADE as well. We always had acknowledgments of the 70's, of the really good' sounding singles, of glam. I'll always love ROXY MUSIC, stuff like that. DAVID We once covered "Suffragette City?"

JR:What? Every Frat Party cover band does that!

DAMIAN:Way crack in the early days. I have set lists, you'd just die if you saw them.

JR:Have you ever heard Wed ice, from L.A. , who took their name from your (Undertones) song?

DAMIAN:Yeah, I have their Betsy's House EP. I never play it. I didn't like it. Are they still going?

JR:Yes. Their last LP was much better, very different. (tote:Wed Week broke up 5/90)

DAMIAN:Somebody told me about them, someone who had an American girlfriend vaguely knew them. There's also a group called SIGN EXPLODE

JR:Have you ever heard anyone cover Undertones or That Petrol Emotion songs?

DAMIAN:Unfortunately, there's not many that I've heard. I heard a band from Australia recently, they did "Jesus Says," it's a pretty awful version. By GRAVITY PIRATES. There's a Dutch band that recorded "There Goes Norman," which I wish I had a copy of, but I don't. But that's it. I'm pissed 3 off, nobody really covers us.

JR:That's at least a good choice! I've seen American bands do stuff from the 1st Undertones LP live, but they didn't record it.

DAMIAN:Yeah, VOICE C' thE BEEHIVE do "It's a Good Thing." It's not that good. It's not that good at all. (Their version of COMSAT ANMS' "Independence Day" is even worse!)

JR:Well your singer Steve goes out with one of them, right?

DAMIAN:Yes. Actually, we did that a couple of nights together at the end of the US tour.

JR- A friend of mine gave me a piece of intelligence The last show before your brother John quit That Petrol Emotion, I hear you were supposed to play an Undertones song or two for nostalgia's sake, but he wasn't into it.

DAMIAN:No, it wasn't even mentioned. I have to say I did think about it, but I never even suggested it, 'cause I knew John would be "no way." Which is sad, I would have loved to do "Teenage Kicks!"

JR:That's what you would have chosen?

DAMIAN:Oh yeah. It would have been, 'cause that was the first single, and one of our best.

JR:A favorite guitar song. An amazing sound.

DAMIAN:(holds up guitar, in pictures last issue) This is actually the guitar I used when we recorded that 11 years ago.

JR:It still says Undertones on it. A "CSL?"

DAMIAN:It's a Japanese copy I got for 80 quid in 1977.

JR:It looks like it's done some touring.

DAMIAN:It was a great guitar in its time. For a copy, it's a great sound.

JR:Did you ever hear a song called "Another Dead Soldier" by ANTI-PASTI? (no) That was a rip-off of "Teenage Kicks." GARY . noticed that.

DAMIAN:Bushell was a dickhead. One of my proudest moments is the solo in "Teenage Kicks" it's so simple yet so effective. I didn't get to do many good solos after that, but that's one I'm proud of.

JR:That reminds me. Why after spending even a minor sum of 1000 pounds to acquire the rights to the four songs on that "Teenage Kicks" EP did you go and re-record in a terribly inferior form, that LP version of "True Confessions," one of your greatest songs ever wasted! And the world never e,,4 the incredible original version!

DAMIAN:God. What was that? I don't really remember, 'cause I hate that song on the LP as well. "True Confessions" we always preferred to "Teenage Kicks," we thought it was a better song as well. "Teenage Kicks" wasn't even supposed to be a single, it was just an EP that came out. We didn't think "Teenage Kicks" was going to be this popular song the way it turned out.- We preferred "True Confessions," I just don't remember why we didn't put that EP version on the album, I just don't know.

JR:Particularly since the EP version of "Teenage Kicks" made it to the U.S. LP. It seemed strange to have this completely reworked (without cjuitars!) version of "True Confessions" there.

DAMIAN:Who's idea? Who's to blame? God.

JR:You don't remember who said "why don't we try this again."

DAMIAN: Don't remember whose idea it was to turn it into this R-like thing, it's embarrassing. That's me singing as well!

JR:What about "Emergency Cases" and "Smarter Than You," were those considered for the 1st LP?

DAMIAN:Yeah, they're good. But for the LP we wanted to give value for money, that's why we didn't put "Teenage Kicks" and "Get Over You" on the LP (they made it to the U.S. version though!) either, we had 15 completely new songs. Those days remember were different, Bhomcocks were sticking out singles and it would never be on their next LP. Things have changed since then of course. You can't even get away with doing that now (though Mega City 4 does, they're just being admirably stubborn. More power to shucking the tide!).

JR:They didn't have 12" singles back then too, that's been such a sorry development! It's really responsible for killing the single if you ask me. They spend money on wasted vinyl when they used to buy 7" records.

DAMIAN:Yeah maybe. There's a 12" of "My Perfect Cousin" reissued. But it wasn't 'fit near the end of Undertones when the 12"s came in, we did "Got to Have You Back" on 12".

JR:That's right, the early 80's is when the change came in. Sad day. What was "She Could Only Say No?" Was that what you did when you broke a string and had to change it?

DAMIAN:Yeah, it's true, that's what we'd done at the Casbah. (Derry club immortalized on the 1st LP) We played it once in England. The actual version on the record isn't live, it just sounds live, but it's us in the studio. That's great, I love that song, John wanted to sing!

JR:Was there a longer version or was that it?

DAMIAN:No, it was always a minute or less. We always liked short songs, like "I Don't Wanna see You Again" was one of the first we ever wrote.

JR:"Smarter Than You" as well.

DAMIAN:You know, I'd love to hear that again!

JR:You don't have copies of some of this stuff?

DAMIAN:I have on compilations. I don't have "Teenage Kicks" EP, I don't. I had 5, I gave them to a friend to keep them for me, and since then he's lost them. Plus somebody stole my 10 copies of the original black and white LP which you can't get anymore.

JR:Yeah, even the UK version now is using the American sleeve, which is stupid.

DAMIAN::Yeah, I don't like that cover. Xerox. Funny, when that was reissued,, that was Sire's idea to make more money, to stick "Teenage Kicks" and "Get Over You" on the American version, it got released over here as well like that. We sold 80,000 of the first original album, then they reissued it with a new catalog number. If they didn't reissue it, we would have had a gold record. But because of the reissue with new number, it counts as a new record totally! So to this day, we never even got a gold record or a silver record, or nothing. Not that I care.

JR:You probably would have lost that too. Give it to your friend to keep.

DAMIAN:Probably! But I would have liked that, we eventually sold over 100,000 but it didn't count. I don't care about gold records but for the first one it would have been nice.

JR:Yeah, but you know, most good bands go their whole lives lucky to sell 2000-5000 copies of anything. And you aimed low when you started.

DAMIAN:That's right, as I said before, there was no career in mind at all, it was just for a bit of a laugh.

JR:Was "Mars Bars" the only song you wrote about chocolate?

DAMIAN::Oh, you mean, "More Songs About Chocolate and Girls?" (laughs) Yeah. Again, I've. got a friend, an Undertones freak, who loves that song. And it's in fact on the juke box in a pub in Camden (North London) as well. And it was on the other night, funny enough, when I was there. (Jack laughs) And again, it was embarrassing to me. It's not that I'm that embarrassed, but I cringe a little bit, 'cause it's just a stupid song!

JR:It's like an advert.

DAMIAN:Right. I always hoped Mars would pick it up, I could have earned a lot of money from that!

JR:Maybe you should try again now.

DAMIAN::That's a good idea, I could use the money. They're still around, they're one of the biggest chocolate companies.

JR:Try a disco version or something!

ADEN:(laughs) Yeah, that's it, a disco version.

JR:SO is it because you split the songwriting royalties 5 equal ways, was that why you and John came out of The Undertones with no money?

DAMIAN:Well, we never really sold that many records. The first two did OK. Yeah, Positive Touch and Sin of Pride were abysmal sales. John and I, when we came out of the Undertones, we didn't have much money, it's all gone. We did OK, you know, we all had mortgages in Derry, even me. I had a 20,000 beautiful semi-detached bungalow which I had for a year. So I could afford the mortgage for a year. But I sold that afterwards, after we broke up. Yeah, we were pretty broke by the time we finished Undertones. I think I lived on some Undertones royalties for 6 months, then I went on the dole,

JR:Everyone thinks that when you have a number of hit singles you must be rolling in wealth.

DAMIAN:That you're stinking rich. But it was a good end for John. John got mare money from Undertones once we broke up. Because the deal was changed so that further publishing money would all be split to whoever wrote the song. So John ended up getting a lot of money for royalties, plus the last publishing deal we done 5 years ago, he got 20,000 pounds or something in advance, and I got 8,000 or something, and Mickey got 6,000. Feargal and Billy didn't get a penny. So he earned more money the last couple of years since we broke up.

JR:SO that's why That Petrol Emotion has never, split the songwriting credits.

DAMIAN:Well we always believed in writing down the credits on the records in The Undertones, 'cause that's what thE NEW YORK DOLTS used to do, it would say thUNDERS/SYLVAIN, so the Petrols are the same, but we never signed a publishing deal, to anybody, , so it's still up for grabs. But it's more even., If we sign a deal which we'll have to soon, it'll be split to the songwriter. It's only fair, the. songwriter did the work, he should get the money.

JR:It depends on how much everyone contributes.

DAMIAN:Some people write a song, but it isn't until the rest of the members play it that it's finished. DAMIAN:True, obviously, there's a certain percentage split to everybody else as well. The majority of the money goes to the songwriter.

JR:Who does most of the research for the political literature on your records?

DAMIAN:Uh, everybody, who ever has the idea. John and Raymonde mostly.

JR:You just go to the library?

DAMIAN:Yes, you just get it out of books, there's so much literature like that in Ireland. It's incredible. They're all facts, like Amnesty International, we quote them, and things like that.

JR:That one from 100 years ago, though, that's a nice piece of research.

DAMIAN:Yeah, we take things from books as cell, we just literally copy them out word for ward. One or two we made up. Thing is now, John was the most political one, now he's gone, all of our new songs don't deal with politics at all, or Ireland. They do in a way, but not, less than in the past.

JR:How long have you lived here in London?

DAMIAN:Me? I moved at the end of The Undertones, just before we broke up. Everyone else has moved here since '84 or so.

JR:Do you think the distance between you and Derry has caused your Political spirit to wane?

DAMIAN:No, no, no. Maybe a bit, but I still turn on the news everyday to hear what's happening in Ireland, I still read the newspapers. Plus me family keeps me up to date. I'm always interested in what's going on, it's kind of depressing. 'Cause nothing changes. It's scary, it's getting scary there at the moment, in the summer things are going to happen.

JR:Bloody Sun actually occurred in Derry, right?

DAMIAN:I remember that vividly.

JR:You were about 10, right (1972)?

DAMIAN:Yes, about. I remember it well, because my parents asked me and my sister to go to that march. And we didn't go because football was on TV, and I wanted to watch Chelsea, that's my team. My parents went, and I remember hearing all the shooting. So I went to the top room, my bedroom, and looked down, the march was at a fair distance but you could see the people running. People falling, which was even more scary. It was like a half mile but you could see what was going on, down at the bog side. About an hour later my father came up white as a ghost, and he's going "Where's your mother?" He'd lost me mother, 'cause they were all running away from the bullets (fired by the British Army). I'd never seen him so scared. Anyway, he came back with her a half hour later, he'd found her. Luckily enough. But it always remains in my memory, because, you know, they got away with it (the British), they killed 14 people, mostly all 17 year olds shot in the back.

JR:They've been getting away with it for 500 years.

DAMIAN:Yeah, but that was the most recent real atrocity, it's not that long ago, just 17 years. And they never talk about it here (in London) of course. (his voice rising) It'll be interesting to see if in '92 if there's even going to be an anniversary thing in the papers here.

JR: T R has banned the use of the term "I.R.A." in the papers here, hasn't she?

DAMIAN:Yeah. Well, you can't ban mentioning them, you can't do that. She's banned quoting them. On TV especially, which makes a farce out of democracy, doesn't it?

JR:They can't see that's as much censorship as the SAU43n CIE affair, who they're hiding?

DAMIAN:Yeah! Oh yeah. It's even more sinister, what they can get away with here. 'Cause it's more hypocrisy, since we call ourselves a democratic country (as opposed to Iran).

JR:And yet there are no protests for this ban like there are, justifiably, in the Rushdie matter.

DAMIAN:No. There was local elections in Northern Ireland. The reason they put this ban in is to make them lose support among Catholics. But their support has just about stayed, the same, so it hasn't even worked. It just another propaganda thing for the I.R.A.!

JR:That stuff always, backfires. To what degree does HOBBY SANDS continue to inspire the Irish?

DAMIAN:Well, OK, the actual fact is that 10 men, not just Sands, died of hunger in the hunger strike for the right to be called "political prisoners." The right not to have to wear prison clothes and be branded a criminal. The fact that they have to go to that extreme says a lot about the willpower of Irish people. Irish Catholics, and the I.R.A. as well. All around the world, that was a scary period. For The Undertones as well, we were starting to get involved, we felt very strongly about this, and "It's Going To Happen" was originally about the hunger strikers, just before he died. "It's going to happen all the time," 'cause Irish history is full of hunger strikers and people dying. Anyway, the original words, I did them, and they were really corny, really obvious. So Mickey changed them, he made it into just a pop song. Regrettably now. But we did Top of The Pops the night before Bobby Sands died, and I wanted everyone to wear a black armband. They all chickened out at the last minute except for me. So I've got the video, I'm wearing the black armband on Top of The Pops. But nobody noticed it.

JR:Was that the only political statement Undertones ever made?

DAMIAN::No, Positive Touch as well, there's a song called "You're Welcome," which isn't political, it's more like a friend of ours was in (sounds like) Long Kesh, which is an I.R.A. prison, a just gotten out after 5 years for explosives charges. So it's like a welcome back to civilization in a way. And "This Crisis of Mine" was John, writing about, his dilemma about writing about Northern Ireland.

JR:What do you think of the new "Belfast Child" by SIMPLE

DAMIAN:I've never heard the song, I don't want to!

JR:What about something like "Invisible Sun" by thE POLICE?

DAMIAN:That was better. That got banned here (in England), can you believe it? Typical. Actually, the song didn't, but the video did, with all the tanks and stuff. It was #1. STING, for being the wanker that he is, give him a bit of credit. At least he's politically aware. His wife was from Northern Ireland and obviously he knew about the history of Ireland, at least they tried something there, for being a massive pop group. That eras a good song, I like it.

JR:What about the PAUL PINEY song "Give Ireland Pack to The Irish," and JOHN LENNON's "The Luck of The Irish" and "Bloody Sun?"

DAMIAN:Yes, those too. And there's "Dance Dance" by DEXY's, which is a great statement on Northern Ireland as well. There they mention a lot of famous Irish authors. There it's like KEVIN ROWLAND is saying "How dare you call the Irish people stupid." It's a great, intelligent way to do it. I would have loved to have written that song.

JR:You used that for 'a cartoon on one of your sleeves, with the than saying "There were these thick paddies-"

DAMIAN:Yeah, it's true, it's like Polish jokes in America. Or whatever. Over here it's Irish jokes, despite all the great literate artists. Our law treats Irish as 2nd class citizens here, it's just the same as blacks and Pakistani people, it's just the British snobbery, they still think they're the elite. They still have this empire mentality. Thatcher is a result of this mentality, she's not in power for nothing. People want to be proud to be British again, and all this crap (a page of Reagan/Bush brook). It's the same as America, as you know.

JR:Anything you want to say in conclusion, anything you want people to know? A completely open question. Here's your 5 minutes to say something.

DAMIAN:Well. None. Nothing really:Petrols have yet to make our finest LP which hopefully will be our:next one. We should be recording in July so it won't be out 'tit October at least. It's got to be out this year, otherwise we'll be totally lost (it wasn't released=. until spring 1990!). I'm cynical as ever'-about the music business though. I've been through what, 5 majors or something, and they're all the same. Bunch of wankers, but we know that already. Oh, actually 4, Sire/WEA, EMI, Polydor Virgin.

JR:You're running out of them pretty soon. You haven't hit up CBS yet.

DAMIAN:I'm pissed off over here, there aren't many good groups over here anymore, everyone's looking to America again. 'Cause that's where groups like PISS and SONIC YOUth are coming out, stuff that's refreshing. Whereas over here, '!Y BLOODY Val are great, but you can count them on your fingers, there's not that many.

JR:Even the rap and acid house thing, which I hate?

DAMIAN::Yeah, I noticed your articles, and I disagree with i sane of that. I really like TON IOC, that kind of rap, where it's not really vulger or harsh, or egotistical, like how big's my cock. You have a very valid reason there to complain about that. No, well, all this aside, nothing's happening here, and the music business is crap, but I'm still sticking at music because I love it.

TheUndertones.net/bt_1989.htm